Dijak Interview on Hi-Flyer Training, T-Bar Promos, Keith Lee Rivalry, Oba Femi First-Ever Entrance

Sportshadow got the opportunity to interact with one of the most athletic and intimidating big men in professional wrestling, Dijak, in the eighth episode of its Wrestleshadow podcast series.

In the 40-minute conversation, Dijak revealed why his trainers believed molding him into a high-flyer would benefit him in WWE and how his basketball background provided the athletic blueprint for his top-rope arsenal.

Despite his own aerial prowess, Dijak remains a traditionalist, arguing that the Canadian Destroyer is currently overused and should be reserved strictly for special occasions. He also shed light on the unique duality of his fierce on-screen rivalry and deep off-screen friendship with Keith Lee.

The conversation turned candid when Dijak addressed the T-Bar era in WWE. While he acknowledges the fan criticism surrounding those promos, he went in-depth to explain the lack of creative control as the character faltered.

Dijak elucidated that working under Triple H and Shawn Michaels in NXT involves far more similarities than differences.

It was during his second tenure in NXT that Dijak claims he spotted Oba Femi's potential, recalling the time the Ruler made the crowd sway in his very first entrance in a dark match despite only having stock music to work with.

As for the jump to the main roster, Dijak believes the success or failure of a superstar transitioning from NXT is often a matter of TKO's priority to maximize profits rather than a reflection of an athlete’s actual credibility.

He concluded by pulling back the curtain on the industry's financial mechanics, explaining the inner workings of the downside guarantee clause in WWE contracts and weighing the distinct financial pros and cons of grinding on the independent circuit.

Here are the edited excerpts for clarity.

Dijak on the current phase of his pro wrestling career

It’s a whirlwind adventure. I’m traveling more than ever and encountering a greater variety of professional wrestling than at any other point in my career.

I’m performing at a level of reputation, confidence, and trust that I’ve never reached before. I’m 38 now and turn 39 next month. For wrestlers with 14 years of experience, this is an interesting window.

You gain more experience the more you do it in professional wrestling, but the human body doesn't always keep up with that trend. Fortunately, I am very healthy right now. I feel I am in the prime of my career athletically.

While I’m aware I am toward the end of my career rather than the beginning, I hope this lasts until I’m 45 or 50. I think I’ll look back on this moment extremely fondly.

Dijak on if he intentionally trained to become a hi-flying big man

It wasn't originally on my mind. When I was first training in 2012, I was bigger than most people, and the sentiment was to 'be big and protect your size.' However, my trainers always envisioned me in WWE.

They told me that once I got there, I would be the same size as everyone else and no longer a 'big guy.' That actually turned out to be untrue. By the time I arrived, WWE was sizing down dramatically. The Kanes, Undertakers, Big Shows, and Great Khalis were no longer with the company. I eventually realized I was one of the top five tallest guys in the entire promotion.

By then, I had already created a unique identity as an athletic hybrid big man. This developed during my time in Beyond Wrestling and Ring of Honor. In 2015, I asked myself how I could stand out in places that weren't looking for a slow, lumbering storytelling style.

I leaned into my athleticism, doing things smaller guys do, and some things they can't. At one point in Ring of Honor, I was likely one of the top five high-flyers in the company because few others were going to the top rope then.

Today, I’ve pieced together a unique style that combines flips, dives, and quick movements with heavy storytelling and size differentials.

It is not easy. I’ve studied all the taller guys who ever performed high-flying moves. There are things I physically cannot do, like a Shooting Star Press or a 450 Splash.

My height makes the rotation and the way my feet catch the ground extremely difficult. However, I pride myself on moves I can do that I haven't seen anyone my height replicate, like a springboard tornillo or a corkscrew moonsault.

I performed a corkscrew moonsault in CMLL a few weeks ago, and another more recently for WXM. I save those for big occasions because WXM and the Indian fans mean so much to me.

I pride myself on being the best tall high-flyer in history. That isn't to discount the Undertaker, who is taller and did moves over the top rope, but I try to separate myself through my specific athleticism.

I’m self-aware enough to know a day will come when I won't want to perform those maneuvers, but hopefully, that is 10 years away.

Dijak on the Canadian Destroyer off the top rope to Keith Lee

That was a calculated risk. We didn't tell anyone we were doing it. In fact, we might have smudged the truth when telling our producer our plans because we were afraid they would say it was too big or unsafe.

Sometimes in pro wrestling, you must take those risks to create a memorable moment. I stand by that decision. It was during the Wednesday night ratings battle between the NXT Black and Gold brand on USA and AEW on TNT. We had just started going live, and we needed to make a statement.

A lot of the physics of a Destroyer is handled by the person receiving it. That move is a testament to Keith Lee. He is perhaps the greatest big-man athlete this sport has ever seen. Our feud worked because we both defied the expectations of our sizes. No other duo of our size could replicate those moments.

For my part, it comes from my athletic background, specifically basketball. People often focus on football as the parallel to wrestling. In basketball, I wasn't actually that tall.

I was surrounded by people taller than me, so I had to be quicker and learn to rotate around them while using my strength. That is why I can jump to the top rope and start twisting in the air for a springboard tornillo.

Those athletic movements came naturally to me because I’m used to jumping, exploding, and landing in a pivot position before rotating in the air to circle a defender in basketball.

The flipping portion simply comes from being a kid playing in the pool. I had friends with diving boards and others with trampolines, so I got comfortable jumping and landing on my feet.

When the time came to stand on a top rope, I knew I had done the movement before. I practiced it onto a 'crash pad', which are the big, puffy pillows, and landed right on my feet.

I’m not telling kids to try unsafe things. I encourage my own kids to use the foam pits at trampoline parks. That’s where you figure out your athleticism safely. A pro wrestling ring is not a good place to land on your head for the first time.

Dijak on if the Canadian Destroyer is overused in modern pro wrestling

The Canadian Destroyer is unsafe. I’ve been extremely lucky. The most significant injury of my career was a meniscus tear that only sidelined me for three and a half months.

However, one of my scariest moments occurred against Mustafa Ali during the brief window when Triple H had just taken over creative for Raw. I was still T-Bar and hadn't transitioned back to NXT as Dijak yet.

Ali and I wanted to make a statement on Main Event to show we could be consistent television guys. We decided to close the match with a Canadian Destroyer off the top rope. Again, we didn’t tell anyone.

We got chewed out in the back for it, and we knew we would. I was the one taking the move and I landed right on top of my head, feeling my neck compress.

I am not undermining Ali a bit because he doesn't have any control of what I'm doing in terms of my backflip. Thankfully, I’m flexible and do a lot of yoga and strength training for my neck, so I was okay.

I encourage wrestlers to practice that move safely and save it for big moments.

Even if you have perfected it and can do it as safely as a shoulder tackle or a hip toss, I would encourage pro wrestlers to use it sparingly. I am not saying don't do it. I’m just saying save it as a big spot.

There are too many of them now. Don't use it as a transition. Use it where it means something. If you do too many big moves, they get lost in the wash and take away the 'cool' factor.

Dijak on his relationship with Keith Lee on and off-screen

Working with Keith Lee was incredibly special and spanned many segments of my career. I just wrestled for MLW at Center Stage in Atlanta, and someone reminded me that my first NXT match with Keith was in that same building seven years ago.

The first time we wrestled was at Beyond Wrestling. I discovered that day just how incredibly athletic, strong, and charismatic he was.

We were both hungry to make names for ourselves, so we trusted each other completely in the construction and execution of our matches. We wrestled about 14 times on the indies and perhaps 20 to 30 times in WWE between house shows and TV.

Unfortunately, our final match so far was a throwaway eight-man tag on Raw during the Thunderdome era. I was bald and masked as T-BAR, and he was 'Bearcat.' It didn't have the big-stage feel we wanted because there were no fans.

Keith and I are good friends. He is a private person, so we don’t discuss business or injuries. We talk about music, wish each other Merry Christmas, and I send him family photos. He likes the term 'frenemies,' but there is always mutual respect and admiration.

Dijak on fans' criticism of his promos in WWE main roster as T-Bar

Regarding the criticism of my promos on the main roster, I understand it. My run was entirely as T-Bar, a character I didn't choose. It was a directive from Vince McMahon. He told me I was a monster with face paint and a mask trying to overthrow the company.

I wanted a distinct difference between T-Bar and Dominik Dijakovic because Vince wanted no connection between them. Even though the fans knew it was me, I tried to get away from my original persona aesthetically and audibly.

I didn't write those promos. They were written by a writer or Vince himself sometimes. He often gave me specific verbiage and direction on how to say it.

I used a deep, raspy voice because I was being presented as an alien monster. The verbiage was full of big words and biblical references, not at all how I actually talk.

Vince McMahon was very quick to fire people who didn't follow his directions. It was a volatile time during the pandemic, and since the indies weren't running, I had to make the best of the opportunity.

It was difficult to gauge fan receptivity in the Thunderdome without a live audience. The only feedback was on Twitter, which is often negative. The character died before it even got started.

I think I’ve proven my actual promo ability since then in NXT and as Donovan Dijak. I’m now given more freedom to speak like myself and bring my natural charisma to the product. It’s a balancing act to show people there is much more depth to me while battling those preconceived notions from my time on Raw.

Dijak on working under Triple H and Shawn Michaels in NXT

There were many similarities and a few key differences between my two NXT runs (first run had Triple H as the head booker and second run had Shawn Michaels as the head booker).

During my first stint as Dominik Dijakovic, Shawn Michaels was running things right alongside Triple H. By my second run, Matt Bloom took on the role of program director, which is the person who sits next to the booker.

My first run, which was in the 'Black and Gold' era, was rooted in the head-to-head battle with AEW. The focal point was making every second count so fans would choose us over them, which defined our approach to segments and in-ring action.

While Shawn carried that same attitude into the second run, the focus shifted toward individualization. Instead of worrying about NXT being a superior brand through head-to-head competition, the goal became building individual characters to make the brand superior as a whole.

During the transition to the 'White and Gold' era, I pitched a concept directly to Shawn. I enjoyed the colorful, hyper-defined characters of NXT 2.0, but I wanted to bring back seriousness, grit, and high-level in-ring work.

That is how I developed the 'detective' concept, using interrogation-style vignettes to reflect a darker, grittier physicality in the ring.

Personally, I enjoyed my 'White and Gold' run the most. While my time as Dominik Dijakovic was awesome, including performing at War Games, playing Dijak was more explorative and fun.

I loved the backstage interactions, like locking Joe Gacy in an interrogation room or throwing him off a building.

Dijak on spotting Oba Femi's early potential in NXT

I do see the presentation part of Oba Femi. He is a free agent and part of both Raw and Smackdown. It is mostly short matches and things like that. I think his entrance is great.

The current rendition of his entrance I saw was from when he was literally in his first dark match ever.

He had stock music, but got the crowd over by turning a simple beat into an interactive hand gesture. He took a basic rhythm—the '1, 2, 3' chest beat—and got the crowd to sway and engage immediately.

That stock music sample eventually became his current theme. He understood crowd interactivity from day one. That is a huge part of professional wrestling, and we're seeing that now with the Sosa kid (Ricky Sosa in TNA).

Everything is a work in progress but Oba is also a true student of the game. He stayed late at the Performance Center for 'big man' classes and I would often go in to help.

It's exciting to watch him and watch his progress and watch him continually get better. It looks like Triple H has a big vision because, even though he's only been wrestling for two or three years, he is constantly improving.

Dijak on why some wrestlers succeed while others fail in transition from NXT to main roster

Regarding the transition from NXT to the main roster, viewers often forget that Raw and Smackdown are businesses. WWE is a publicly traded company owned by TKO. Their job is to maximize profit and they have to answer their shareholders.

It isn't always, for the lack of a better word, always going to be a 'fair fight' or a true competition. When a talent gets called up, decision-makers are simply asking: 'Who can we monetize the best right now?'

Sometimes success is based on wrestling ability or character, and sometimes it’s just about timing and what the product needs at that moment.

I don’t look at someone’s run and wish they were used better. I recognize it as an educated financial guess. TKO is meeting its goals. They made a billion dollars in revenue last year. So they aren't failing monetarily.

When a transition doesn't work, fans often ask, 'What did the wrestler do wrong?' or 'How did they screw it up?' Sometimes it goes well and sometimes that's not the particular spot for someone in that position.

In reality, it’s almost never the athlete's fault and not a reflection of their wrestling ability or that they stink. I'm very happy for the people that I'm friends with who are doing well and living their dreams and getting the opportunities they're having.

It is usually a financial decision based on timing and opportunity. Anyone who reaches the main roster, whether their run goes good or bad, is already one of the best wrestlers in the world. From there, their success is a matter of how they fit into the company's current financial map.

Dijak on compensation while working in WWE and the independent circuit

There are many similarities and differences between the two structures. WWE typically works for the standard professional wrestler. You start at a base, and as your career progresses, you receive raises and different contract forms.

Ultimately, this leads to the 'downside guarantee.' This means you are guaranteed X amount of dollars no matter what, whether you're injured or not and then injury time plays a role.

The company keeps track of what you would have made through a system often called the 'proverbial bucket.' If your earnings from merchandise or appearances exceed that guarantee, you get the overage on top.

However, that rarely happens. It is very difficult to exceed a downside guarantee unless you have a monumental run. Usually, if you reach that level, they simply restructure your contract to a higher downside.

WWE provides great consistency. On the independent scene, however, you are your own boss. My income now comes in bursts. There are weeks where I make more than I ever made in a single week at WWE, and then there are weeks where I make no money at all.

Saying that it evens out is unfair. I made more money in WWE than I'm making right now, which is okay. I understand the differences in the different structures and parallels.

The trade-off is that I am now busier, travel more, and have multiple revenue streams. I can do commercials and advertisements and keep all of it.

In WWE, if you did a signing, a photo opportunity, or sold a high volume of T-shirts and action figures, you wouldn't necessarily see extra money because it all just went into that ' proverbial bucket' to see if you could offset your downside.

As a family man with a wife and two children, my bottom line is keeping a roof over our heads and paying the mortgage. My decisions are usually based on what provides the most net worth.

That said, being in control has incredible perks. For example, I have an open date this weekend, so I will take my kids out to dinner on a Saturday night, which is something I rarely got to do before. I am making core memories with my family without worrying about a sudden call to a show.

In WWE, I remember getting a call on Christmas Day telling me I was needed at Madison Square Garden the next night. I live four hours from New York, so I had to drop my holiday plans and drive down. This is my job. I didn't get a choice.

I would have probably opened presents and celebrated with my family or visited my in-laws. Now, I am in control of my schedule. That’s just the journey of being a human being. It's a balancing act. That's not just me being a pro wrestler. That's all of us.

Dijak on getting a call from TNA after leaving WWE

Since leaving WWE, I have had conversations and phone calls with TNA. Everything in this business is about timing and opportunity. My relationships with every major company, including WWE, AEW, and TNA, remain amicable.

Currently, I am having a wonderful time with MLW and WXM. Both companies are trending in the right direction and have major television aspirations.

We are right on the cusp of something big there. Once television rights come into play, we will have to look at exclusivity, as networks generally don't want you appearing on competing channels.

Right now, I am hyper-focused on repaying the people who gave me opportunities with 100% dedication. Whether it’s a small indie for 200 people or a CMLL show at Arena Mexico in front of 15,000, I give my best effort every night. I don't take those lightly.

I am having the best matches and doing the best character work of my life. This will be a pivotal year for determining how these contracts and TV appearances flesh out.

Dijak on working in WXM

My experience with WXM has been unbelievable. The 'call' came through my close friend group. An old friend of ours, Jeet, is involved in the production of WXM in conjunction with the management team.

We were all brought in at the same time from a creative and production standpoint to make WXM the best product possible. I am fortunate to work both behind the scenes and in front of the camera as a representative of America to the Indian fans. The reception has been incredible.

You’ll see more of that in future episodes. I missed the Mumbai show at the NSCI Dome last year, but I believe we have more coming up in the future. The ownership and management have been great, and players like Jeet and Mark Dallas are vital to the upward trajectory they are on.

This is an exclusive interview by Sportshadow. Media outlets using quotes are requested to provide a backlink to this article or the website's homepage alongside embedding the video interview published on Youtube.